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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as former world champion Caleb Plant, IBF junior welterweight Subriel Matias, welterweight champion Jaron Ennis, the showdown between Devin Haney and Regis Prograis, and more.
Breadman, I saw your interview with Nes and you definitely were on point defending your fighter. But Nes is an instigator. He’s trying to create click bait between you, Carlos Adames and Bob Santos. I live in Vegas and Santos was definitely bragging about Adames getting the better of Plant in sparring but it was over a year ago.
For Nes to bring it up after a year, should tell you what he’s about. But I want to talk about you and your training. Caleb Plant is fighting much better under you. And for you to take Julian Williams who has seen much better days and give Adames who is a beast, that type of fight says a lot about you as a trainer. I thought Williams would get stopped inside of two rounds. I couldn’t believe how competitive he was against Adames. Adames actually left Bob Santos after the fight, so that should tell you something.
The win really wasn’t a win for him or else he would not have left his trainer. It seems like you always come in with the underdog fighter in these big fights. PBC doesn’t seem to appreciate the level of trainer you are. Kyron Davis went longer with David Benavidez than Demetrius Andrade on short notice! That’s crazy to me. What can you do about getting a better horse in these races? Plant just doesn’t have enough to beat Benavidez or Alvarez. I know you love Jrock but he gets hurt every time he gets touched and you have to keep him in the fight which can’t be easy. And Davis who is a dark horse with talent, but is a permanent opponent type. It’s amazing that you’re doing so well with them but it’s time you get a star.
Bread’s Response: I’m not commenting on anymore sparring. I guess that’s the culture in Vegas to brag about sparring. But it’s beyond corny to me.
Thanks for the props as a trainer but let me tell you something. If I can’t get it with “my guys’ I don’t want it. In real life I’m not a corner hopper. That’s what we call it in Philly when you jump from neighborhood to neighborhood trying to wave ride. My high school basketball team was horrible my junior year. I could’ve transferred to any school in the city. But I stayed with “my guys”. We went undefeated in our division the next year….
Caleb Plant DOES have enough to beat Benavidez and Canelo. He just has to put it together on fight night. And if he doesn’t. Then we will give it ALL we have if we ever get another chance. That’s all you can do. I’m different from anyone you ever met. I like it when everyone is against me. And I don’t mind going down swinging if we are outgunned.
Jrock is 33 it’s no secret. But that was my 1st fighter and 1st champion. It’s Gonna Be, what it’s Gonna Be with him. Adames thought he was DONE also and all I can say, is that “They Lied” to Adames. I never talked about the fight publicly until it got close. I was confident because I know what Julian can do if he’s in shape and locked in. It just takes a little longer to get in shape when you get a little older. But I know his body…Besides, You can’t lose when you’re playing with house money anyway. Julian was a kid who had to settle for a contract where he made $1,000 for 4 round fights coming out of the amateurs. All I heard was he couldn’t win nationals when I tried to get him signed. 13 years later he’s made millions and was a unified champion. I was literally the only person in the world who believed he could be more than a solid opponent. But we did it. I probably have some sort of mental health diagnosis if I was ever examined because I march to my own tune. I’m a loner and I believe I can do just about anything I put my mind to. I was hoping we got a rematch with Adames to right that wrong but it doesn’t look like we will. Oh well. Hopefully another big name calls next year. The one thing I never let anyone do, is tell me what I KNOW to be true.
Kyrone Davis is a dog. That kid has weird self belief. He doesn’t care. No one can take away his swag. I love that about him. He doesn’t care about being an opponent sort to speak. He takes all the smoke and if a PBC MW or any other promotional company’s MW want any smoke, they can get it from him. Kyrone can beat anyone in the world at 160lbs on a fair notice of 6 weeks or more. I don’t care what anyone says. I’m hoping one of the PBC big names who are moving up is willing to use him as a tune up for a BIG fight. Let’s see what happens. I know, what I know. And I again, I never let anyone tell me what I KNOW to be true.
Humbly speaking. Being a trainer who has the B side fighter in big fights, makes it better if I win, right. So as a competitor do you want to beat someone everyone expects you to beat, or beat someone no one expects you to beat? Sure I would like to make millions and get a big star fighter. But I would rather do it with one of my current guys than hop on a winning team. I’m not saying I won’t take a BIG job BUT trust me I’m not applying for any. I have NEVER asked one fighter to train them. Not one! And I’m not going to start now. I have Julian Williams, Kyrone Davis, Romuel “Cuco” Cruz, Zachary Ochoa, Erron Peterson and Caleb Plant. And I’m content with “MY GUYS”.
As for PBC, I think they know I’m a good trainer. But they don’t tell me who I can train and who I can not to train. I train who I want. And the jobs get offered in all types of ways. PBC has given me a big platform and I’ve made some good money. So again, it’s boxing. And I’m thankful for the PBC. I earn a good living taking care of my family.
No need to complain about getting better fighters. My job is to make the fighters I have better. Besides that, I wouldn’t care who thought I was good or not. I know I’m good. Also I’m a trainer not a fighter. Trainers don't have contracts. I can train fighters for Golden Boy, Top Rank, Matchroom or whoever. You just have to get offered the jobs and have the availability to take them.
Bread,
Hope all is well. I can understand a guy being ecstatic following a dominating performance like the spectacular display Subrial Matias put on this past weekend. I can even understand being surly and ungracious in victory, I suppose. But dancing in the opposite corner after a post-fight embrace, and continuing to dance despite being respectfully asked not to by your vanquished opponent? That was as classless of a display by a fighter as I’ve seen in a while. I say this having loved post-fight displays considered disrespectful by Teofimo Lopez, Caleb Plant, and Terence Crawford. This is not a dump on Sugar Hill, one of the cornermen present, but do you as the chief second step in for your battered fighter in a similar situation and push the guy away? Should the ref be in there? Or is this really a non-situation in your eyes? Finally, since nobody with Top Rank or Matchroom, let alone Mayweather Promotions, is going to go anywhere near him since the reward isn't high enough for the risk involved, how do you envision Matias faring at 147 against two very real options in Stanionis and Ennis?
Thanks, Ray
Bread’s Response: I honestly didn’t see Matias’s celebration so I can’t speak on it. I would love to see Matias fight Ennis or Stanionios. But I don’t want to put that pressure on him to move up if he can still make 140lbs. I’ve never been that type. A fighter’s job is to fight. A promoter’s job is to promote. The promoter has to CREATE opponents for Matias. But if he CHOSE to move up to 147lbs, I would love it. One thing I want to say is forceful BIG fighters like Matias often times aren’t the same as they move up. Terence Crawford is the last champion from 140 to win a title at 147. It’s an underrated jump. Crawford is special. Right now I say Matias vs Stanionios is an even match up. I would take Boots to defeat him in a brutal fight. Matias is tailor made for Boots. Let’s see what happens.
Hey BM,
Does Katie Taylor have the deepest well in all of boxing? Unreal guts shown in the Serrano fight and two Chantelle Cameron fights. Incredible mindset. Also, with technical proficiency and depth of talent at an all time high, should the women focus on retaining two minute rounds a key differentiator with men fights. The work rate, skill sets and action makes for a fantastic watch. A move to three minute rounds would change this “asset”, not because woman can’t do three minute rounds, just because you need to pace yourself differently (male or female).Either way, a great couple of years for woman’s boxing. Hats off. Best to you, enjoy the holidays when they come around.
Mark, Glasgow
Bread’s Response: As I watch Taylor fight, I do say to myself her body language seems off. She seems dazed, hurt, fatigued and uncomfortable often. But she never folds. She looks like she’s about falter out but it never happens. She definitely digs deep time after time. I bet it’s scary for her fans. I hope a referee one day doesn’t pull the trigger too soon and stop one of her fights too early. I respect Taylor. Her heart is immense. And it’s not something to take for granted. She’s literally DEAD GAME and in a time where fighters get applauded for surrendering. I have no issue with it by the way. When you have had enough, you’ve had enough. But Taylor goes to the BURGER. So while fighters who surrender should not be ostracized. We do have to hold fighters who go to the well in a higher regard. Taylor is one of those fighters.
Hey Bread,
Greetings to you and your family. Always enjoy your mail bag and the perspective from someone who is close to the action. Especially for a casual like me! A couple of questions for you if you have time to pick them up. Firstly, especially after the weekends big fight between Andrade and Benavidez, what are your thoughts on the super middleweight division? Talking to a mate of mine at the weekend, our thoughts are that it is pretty poor. Comparatively. Or rather, shallow rather than poor. It seems to have previously been a division stacked with talented fighters. Now it seems that there is only one match really to be made. Going back to the original super six back in the day, I could see canelo struggling with a few of those guys...Ward, Dirrell, Froch, Kessler I think would all cause problems.
These guys are all 6 ft plus, natural super mids. You often talk about the optimum dimensions for a heavyweight, but what about a super mid? Secondly, it seems that with fewer genuine 50/50 contests being made these days due to fighters being marketed and protecting their 0's. So (from a betting perspective), more underdogs appear to be going in to matches against the up and coming / favorites. These are the guys that keep boxing going, proper unsung heroes in my opinion. I can't imagine going into a contest at 10-1 (or whatever US odds!) against a killer, a favored fighter on the up. I'm not talking about a big shot Vs a superstar (e.g. Ryder Vs canelo) where a life changing amount of money is there. But facing a tank, a Beterbiev on the way up; you're a record padder. Have you ever been close to someone in this position? How do they cope with it, mentally? Seriously hats off to them. Do they have the confidence that they can do it? A punchers chance to change their life? Or just a love of the sport?
Much respect.
David, UK
Bread’s Response: Super Middleweight needs some new blood. About 2 or 3 more prospects to mix in the hunt. The division is waiting for Edgar Berlanga to develop but his progress has slowed down somewhat. Diego Pacheco looks to be very good. He's probably advanced past Berlanga. But Pacheco is in the same camp with Benavidez so they can't fight. So I expect Pacheco to slow down his progress until Benavidez moves up.
The perfect size for a super middleweight is about 6ft tall, with a reach of approximately 74 inches. In this era, he should walk about at about 190lbs-200lbs. In terms of body style Andre Dirrell had the perfect SMW body in my opinion. Basically a light heavyweight in the same day weigh in era. See Ezzard Charles.
Hello Breadman.
I hope you and yours are well.1. Is it likely we don’t see Lopez, Haney, Tank or Stevenson fight until they’re at 147? Looking back over the last 20 or so years it seems like a lot of big fights that could have been made at 135/140 were waited out until they got to the more glamorous welterweight division. 2. Ennis is around the same age as these guys. Do you think he will still be at 147 by the time they all make it there? How do you see them dealing with the size/ physicality of Boots3. What are boxers doing more or less of compared to 10 years ago? If we look at basketball teams are shooting much more 3 pointers than 10 years ago mainly thanks to the Warriors. What are the equivalents in Boxing? What are the biggest Tactical or technical changes in boxing today compared to 10 years ago and who would you give the credit to?
Thanks, CW (UK)
Bread’s Response: It depends on how long Jaron Ennis stays in the division to be honest. I don’t think their handlers will let them fight him. He’s equally talented but way too big and mean. He would hurt them.
Boxers are doing more explosive and plyometric training these days….
Hi Breadman,
I called Benavidez in six last week. I've heard you pick great fighters for the future before, Josh Taylor, Ennis and even Robert Easter, who you said was better than Felix Verdejo when he was hyped. Just wondering, who is a new name(s) you would recommend for fans to keep an eye out for?
Bread’s Response: You know in 2013 I talked with Mike Coppinger the ESPN writer and a Philly writer named George Hanson about Terence Crawford. I told them both he would have a better career than Adrien Broner. No disrespect to Broner but I knew Crawford was the DEAL. But the next star is not something you look for. It’s something you just see. When I saw Taylor, Ennis and Easter I just saw them. I wasn’t looking for them. When you try to look you can make yourself see something that may not be true. I’m not stamping these guys yet but when I saw them I felt something.
Abdullah Mason seems to be the Top Rank prospect with the highest upside. I like him but he’s still very young. So I will take my time with praise. But I feel like he’s the best Top Rank prospect out of their current lot. I also like a kid named Euri Cedeno out of the DR. He’s also young and I don’t know what type of punch he can take. He’s a MW and MW is a big punching division historically. But Cedeno is FAST and EXPLOSIVE. If he gets the right trainer and conditioning program he’s going to be a PROBLEM. But again I won’t stamp him yet because he does keep his head up in the air and I don’t know if he can take a good lick to the whiskers. But my goodness he can punch. 6ft, Southpaw, Bomber!! But for the record I’m not stamping him yet, I’m just mentioning him because I can’t tell if he’s a just a great puncher or a great fighter who can punch.
Hi Bread,
just a quick question: What do you make of bam vs sunny? These little swaggers fight gets my boxing heart pumping! All the best,
Miku
Bread’s Response: Competitive fight. Most likely a distance fight. I like Bam by UD.
Not defending Bread in any way, he can defend himself, but something about Carl's post just didn't sit well with me. Ok Carl, since we are breaking down posts piece-by-piece...Saying Boots would be favored is NOT the same as saying Boots would actually win those fights. In that list of PBC fighters Bread posted, besides Errol, Thurman, and maybe Tszyu, which fighters have a resume that stands head and shoulders above that of Boots Ennis? Who cares what type of videos they choose to make? At some point they will have to back it up with what you called "Proof of work." Social media is everyone's chance to promote themselves and that's what they are doing. Ducking or not, Crawford was never going to fight Ennis. That fight is a diehard fan's dream, but the fight simply makes no sense for Crawford to take because the risk was - and still is - greater than the reward. In other words, the fight makes no business sense. As far as Aaron Pryor goes, you mention his win over Hearns, but you neglect to mention that he was 3 years older than Hearns. You say he was avoided.
Maybe, but I would ask, do you go out and fight Duran, Leonard, Hearns, and Benitez because you want to avoid Aaron Pryor? That doesn't seem logical. Both Leonard and Hearns went all the way up to the Light Heavyweight division (Leonard not really). Aaron was not a power puncher, and those two were significantly bigger than he was. Just something to think about. Mancini wasn't in the conversation. I say this as someone who was watching the guys in real time. He had his hands full with Livingstone Bramble around 84-85. He would have been no match for Pryor.
Hagler stayed where he was because 1, he was a consummate professional who was undisputed before it became a fad. He made weight comfortably and ruled his division with an iron fist. 2, it was a 15 lb jump because Super Middleweight wasn't available until 1984. 3, The money fights were coming from the lower divisions. You say Bread denigrates fans, but then you turn right around talking about 24 year-olds who just started following the sport in 2008. If a 9 year-old has been following boxing for 15 years, I would respect that, but you call them "clueless"? To each his own I guess, I have no dog in that fight because I've been following boxing since the 70's. You also accuse him of having skewed logic and a "pro-Philly bias" because he is high on Boots Ennis.
Bread recently trained a 154lb unified champion from Philly...you don't think he has an eye for talent around that weight class, especially in that city? When you give your opinion it's "fact," but when he disagrees with it and gives his opinion as a championship level trainer, he is denigrating you? Really? As you said, you can't have it both ways. Ok that was fun, not worried if it gets posted or not, but if it does hey, not hiding either.
Stay well, Chris Robinson, Silver Spring, MD
Bread’s Response: Chris you know why you see through Carl’s comments because you are using common sense. You’re exactly right, who would be the favorite and who I would pick to win doesn’t have to be exclusive. Because of Ennis’s dominant victories. Amateur pedigree. And eye ball test. There aren’t many fighters in the world near his weights that would be the favorite over him. Boots’s resume is typical of today’s young phenoms. Lipinets, Clayton and Villa are solid fighters. But because they weren’t competitive with Boots the public wants more. But those level of guys would be solid for any other welterweight prospect/contender.
Terence Crawford has waited forever to get his big break. He got it at 35 years old vs Errol Spence. He’s not going to face an uber talent who just hit the scene in his 1st fight after getting that big break vs Spence, who’s 10 year younger than him. Carl knows this. He just wants to find fault in my affinity for Boots’s talent. Funny thing is, I have the same affinity for Crawford’s talent. I’ve been calling Crawford a great fighter and a HOF long before it was cool to do so. I've rated Crawford #1 P4P long before he beat Spence.
Just about everyone loses as an amateur. So what Hearns lost to Pryor when he was 17 and Pryor was 20. You can see that Hearns matured with time and he would have been a nightmare for Pryor at 147. But since we are bringing up amateur fights. Howard Davis beat Pryor as an amateur. The myth is Pryor was this avoided fighter. But I have some more truth. Howard Davis who was a Gold Medalist and beat Pryor 2x as an amateur, got his first title shot in June of 1980. Pryor got his in August of 1980 in his hometown. So how was it again that Pryor was so avoided…I think some lightweights avoided Pryor. But there was no practical timeline for Leonard to fight Pryor. And when he did offer Pryor the fight right after he regained his title from Duran, Pryor admittedly turned it down. Leonard’s ex trainer Dave Jacobs went to Pryor’s team. After Pryor fought Lenox Blackmoore on national tv you can hear Pryor say in his interview that Ray offered him a fight but it wasn’t enough money. You can hear Dave Jacobs say to Pryor fight the little guys, suggesting not to mess with Ray. Then in Pryor’s following fights you don’t see Jacobs in his corner anymore. I wonder why. Let’s assume he told him to LEAVE Ray Leonard alone.
Hearns, Benitez and Duran were busy fighting each other at 154lbs. Did you know Pryor was even calling Marvin Hagler out. It sounded good. But the truth is Arguello was his super fight in 1982. Those other guys had outgrown him and more importantly Pryor never had a significant fight over 140lbs. The only one of the stars could he have really fought was Roberto Duran, who skipped 140 and went straight to 147. But Duran vacated his title in 1978. Pryor was just a prospect at the time…
There was a small window for Pryor to fight Mancini after Pryor beat Arguello. But Mancini didn’t move up to 140. I think Pryor would have won….Pryor also didn’t do much after the 2nd Arguello fight. So he was a caught in a dead division in between big stars. Does anyone ask themselves if Pryor had so much intent to fight killers at 147 why didn’t he move up to fight Donald Curry who wanted big fights. Ray Leonard had just retired and Curry was looking for smoke from 1983-86. Pryor was a great fighter, one of my favorites. But this duck myth gets out of hand. The truth is he was a great, hard luck fighter that self imploded after his biggest victory.
You’re right about Hagler no need to add anything.
I stamped 3 fighters from Philly since I’ve been a pro trainer in 2010. If there were more that didn’t turn out to be good, people would throw it up in my face. Julian Williams who I train. Stephen Fulton who trained at our gym and was looking to get signed in 2014. He turned out pretty good, huh. And Jaron Ennis. I’ve never stamped another fighter from Philly in that regard and for the record I have no professional or financial interest in Ennis’s or Fulton’s career for the record.
Carl reminds me of an uncle I had. He would pick against Michael Jordan and Roy Jones every single game/fight. So the when things didn’t go their way, he stamped himself a genius. He wasn’t a genius, he was a cynic. Carl wants to be the one to say, Bread overrated Boots and Boots is a JAG. Just Another Guy. It’s all it is. And it’s ok. Time will tell who’s right and who’s wrong.
Hi all, Last week I gave example of judge Weisfield, whereas it should have been Dave Moretti (judging Loma vs Haney). Apologies to Steve (Weisfield).
Marek
Bread’s Response: Thank you for correcting yourself. Not many are man enough to do that. I didn’t remember who judged the fight, I just knew I thought Loma won the 10th round.
What’s your call on Haney vs Prograis? I’m going back and forth on my pick. Can you break it down from top to bottom?
Bread’s Response: I gave a pick on www.boxingpick.com but I will again.
If there is a decision I like Devin. KO I like Regis. My overall feeling is Devin is more likely to win so he’s my official pick. I feel like Devin’s jab and athleticism will earn him a decision but he may have some choppy moments. Regis is very heavy handed. He has wear down punches. Hard fist. And a mean streak. But I’m picking Devin because he’s 10 years younger, faster and longer.
I also feel like Devin has a top 5 jab in boxing. I bring the jab up because I feel like Regis does too much to avoid punches. He contorts his body all over the place. His defense is solid but it’s not efficient. You can put Regis in counterproductive spots because of how he tries to avoid punches. A pressure fighter who’s at a length and speed disadvantage will have issues if he does that.
Taylor vs Prograis was razor close but Taylor was in punching position slightly more and it appeared he was on control a little more because of this. I feel like Devin can put Regis in those same spots. But I have to say this, there is a window where Regis can clip Devin. I think it bothers Devin that he gets criticized for not being a puncher. Sometimes Devin “tries” to punch hard, instead of being sharp and accurate. Floyd Mayweather never let that bother him.... Devin has to be very careful with Prograis. Devin throws his jab perfectly but he loads his right hand and hook sometimes and Regis throws short little punishing shots. Devin will be in front of his hometown crowd and big crowd’s are casual crowds. Devin has to fight the urge to be too exciting and exchange too much because it plays into Regis’s hands. That’s a dilemma. But again I think Bill Haney will settle him down and Devin will box his way to a decision.
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