Daily Bread Mailbag: Artur Beterbiev, Canelo, Spence-Crawford, Rodriguez, More - BoxingScene.com

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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Artur Beterbiev's knockout of Joe Smith, Canelo Alvarez, Terence Crawford vs. Errol Spence, Beterbiev vs. Bivol, Bam Rodriguez and his worth as a fighter, and more.

Greetings Bread.  Happy Juneteenth!

I'm really looking forward to the Errol Spence vs. Terence Crawford unification fight for all the marbles at welterweight. Hopefully it's announced soon. But this being boxing it's always possible that the sport shoots itself in the foot and the fight falls apart over money.  If Crawford kills the bout due to an insistence on a 50/50 purse split I think that will be a terrible look and he is essentially ducking by pricing himself out.  I know Bud is a prideful guy but Spence is rightfully in the driver's seat here, he holds more belts and has had more success on PPV.  Do you think Crawford will take a page out of Devin Haney's book and accept B-side status in order for a shot at all the belts and greatness?  Or is he going to look to Jermell Charlo instead (which there has been a lot of recent chatter about) if he doesn't get what he wants?

-ShoulderRoll from the BoxingScene forums

Bread’s Response: I haven’t heard much about the negotiations…..I also don’t want to state my opinion on what a fighter should do unless the fight gets made or broken. I will say, that Spence is a slight A side because of his 3 belt hold on the division and PPV numbers. I also think that both fighters NEED each other and if this is done right, it will sell over 1M PPV buys and they will do a HUGE live gate.

Let’s see if the fight gets made. I believe it will get made this year.. If the fight doesn’t get made it will effect both Crawford and Spence’s legacy especially with the emergence of Jaron Ennis. Imagine if they don’t fight each other and they don’t fight Ennis. That would be an unfulfilled legacy.

Hey Breadman, How are you ? I wrote in for the impressive, and I would say the greatest performance of Beterbiev !He was on fire on that night. With this fight, people that thought he was heavy handed realized that he was even more heavy handed than they thought, but what was really on display for me was his boxing skills, patience and IQ. Some people just see the brutally of that guy and don’t see that he is just as good in the other departments. If he wanted to, he could win his fight just managing the distance and boxing without knocking his opponents out.

His movement, punch selection, the variety of his punches and his timing were just perfect ! Joe Smith had no chance to win against that version of Beterbiev, he was extra-focus the all time. He was on a mission on seek and destroy mode. The last fight I saw him that determined was against Gvozdyk.

About his punching power, Tim Bradley made a comment that reminded me of what you use to say : « He doesn’t punch TO the target, he punches THROUGH the target ».Joe Smith style was perfect for him, but I don’t think any style would have cause problems to Beterbiev on that night. What do you think of Beterbiev vs Bivol ? I think that would be a high technical fight, and with what I saw Saturday I can’t see Beterbiev losing. Thanks for your time, take care !

Max from France

Bread’s Response: When two huge punchers fight, take the puncher who is more technically profound. Tyson vs Ruddock. Hagler vs Mugabi. McClellan vs Jackson. Beterbiev has the appearance of a great fighter in my opinion. Things change as far as chances in a fight. But if Beterbiev vs Bivol happened next, I would favor Beterbiev. 

Thoughts on Beterbiev and Smith. Beterbiev had an interesting comment.  He stated in an interview that he’s “lucky he landed first.” I found that comment to be odd.  It seems like Beterbiev really respected Smiths power.  Maybe he believes that Smith had the ability in him to change the course of the bout HAD Smith been able to. Smith never landed clean.  Beterbiev did.  He landed clean first and that was essentially the end of the bout and Smith resorted to trading. It made me think.  Was this bout just a case of who landed big first?

Bread’s Response: I think these comments are a case of Beterbiev being humble. Smith is a solid fighter, but Beterbiev looks like a great fighter. There is just a difference.

What's good Bread, Beterbiev is a dude, based off him vs Gvodyzk I think he beats Bivol. It just gives me those vibes, round 10-11 breakdown, I don't think Bivol could deal with the mental pressure Artur brings. Crazy dude is 37, but he looked fresh last night. I don't recall him starting that fast before. I can't help think how much greater these Eastern European fighter's legacies would be if they didn't fight 300-400 amateur fights. On another note, if SRL didn't retire in 84' does he beat all those WW after him Curry, Honeyghan, Mccrory, Starling etc? What was Curry's issues because at his apex dude looked incredible. I heard Honeyghan loved the nightlife & women & that was his downfall. Lastly was the early to mid 90s a dry spot for 147? I can't think of any major talent during that era.

Bread’s Response: Beterbiev did what great fighters do. They take a perceived weakness and they improve upon it. Before the fight, Beterbiev was thought to be a slow starter. Smith started fast and Beterbiev stopped him in 2 rounds. That shows in fight improvement which is the next step to greatness. Fighters won't be so fast to start fast vs Jason Vorhees again.

Sugar Ray Leonard retired in 1982 after he defeated Bruce Finch. He returned in 1984 vs Kevin Howard. Then took off again until 1987. If Leonard didn’t retire from basically 1982-87 he had a chance to be the GREATEST fighter ever. He already has maybe the best 4 scalps collected by one fighter ever in Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler.  So if he sticks around Curry, Honeyghan, Starling and Breland were at welterweight. Mugabi, McCallum, Moore and Ayala were at junior middleweight. Hagler at middleweight. And the wild card would have been Aaron Pryor coming up from 140lbs. As much as I love Ray Leonard I don’t think any fighter in history would have been able to go through that line up without a loss. Just being forced to be on that level fight in and fight out can cause a loss or two. But I think individually he would win at least 8 out of 10 of the fight and most likely win the rematch in the fights he lost if he did lose. We saw Leonard’s peak, but we missed it for a sustained period. He fought Finch when he was 25 and never fought at his best weight again. So we never got to see his continuous peak. 

No the early to mid 90s was not a dry spot at 147. If anything the late 80s were. If you call Simon Brown and Marlon Starling dry. Both are HOF level fighters. Maybe not Leonard and Hearns but elite nonetheless. After them Buddy McGirt, Pernell Whitaker, Tito Trinidad, Ike Quartey and Oscar De La Hoya emerged. So I don’t believe there was a big dry spot. Every 4-5 years welterweight produces a HOF. There was a slight dry spot after Tito, Oscar and Shane because no HOF surfaced until Floyd and Cotto came to the division in 2005-6….But overall welterweight is usually always stacked with great fighters.

Breadman!

Sure looked like Beterbiev scored all his knockdowns with shots behind the head. The ref warned him once but it kept happening. I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened anyway, but I think Smith should of had time to recover. Also what a left by Ramirez. Nova never saw it. Knockout of the year candidate. Thanks for always putting together a great column.

v/r Jay

Bread’s Response: That left hand by Ramirez was a great shot. I was very impressed. I also love his trainer Ismael Salas. He’s the real deal.

I feel like a glove is covers about 4 to 6 inches of surface space. So a punch can be in front of the legal area and simultaneously in an illegal area. In my opinion that punch is legal. A fighter can’t shrink his hands and he can’t help that. If a punch lands 100% in the illegal area then it’s a foul. I didn’t see that.

I saw Beterbiev land sweeping right hands, on the side of the head area. I think it’s border line but I don’t think they are illegal shots but I wouldn’t argue with the fighter who gets hit there and hurt. It’s a sweat area and more and more fighters are going after it. Let’s see how it plays out from here on out. I’m curious to see.

One more thing. I think where the landing fighter is standing is crucial. If a fighter is on the side of behind a fighter and it lands in that spot, I think it will get called a foul. But if they are in front of their opponent and it lands it won’t be called illegal. Beterbiev was in FRONT of Smith.

Hey Bread - Is the lack of motivation something that is a serious concern for Canelo or is it something being overblown in your estimation? It's an interesting notion that repeats itself over and over for athletes in combat sports time and time again. I believe Dana White said something along the lines of: it's hard to get up at 4am and do the dirty work when you now sleep in silk pajamas, re: Mcgregor after he fought Mayweather. Re: Canelo, there's a lot of rumblings that he's enjoying golfing more than boxing. Oscar called him out on it. There have been numerous articles since his loss to Bivol referencing that he hasn't stepped inside the gym to train for the GGG trilogy yet but is joining celebrity/charity golf outings. I'll take those articles with a grain of salt as it's probably too far out for him to start a training camp, they don't want him to burn out before the fight...but it's interesting nonetheless. Do you think perhaps he isn't truly motivated anymore? Is it possible Reynoso/his team keeps having him move up and challenge for more and more belts as a means to try and stimulate motivation bc he might be mentally checking out? And, if that's the case and he is mentally checking out, how in the world does fighting a 40 year old he's officially never lost to, in a division he has already cleaned out, motivate him? Seems like a trap fight if his motivation is off?

All the best,

Bread’s Response: I believe in DISCIPLINE over motivation. Motivation disappears after you attain your goal. DISCIPLINE stays no matter what. I can’t say if Canelo has lost motivation but I do question if we will see the form that we saw of his super middleweight run of Smith, Saunders and Plant. 

Canelo was very fatigued vs Bivol. He’s had stamina issues in the past. So whatever he did to overcome them…..they surfaced again vs Bivol. When a fighter slips, his biggest flaws start to surface more. After historic runs, little chinks start to surface. It doesn’t matter who the fighter is. It’s just how it is. 

The great Roy Jones went to the ropes more and more. Pacman started to be easier to predict with his in and out bounce. Ali leaned back more and went to the ropes more. So if Canelo has slipped we will see it sooner than later. His stamina will deplete. He won’t work as hard to get in shape. He’s really 5’8. And 5’8 super middleweights have to work really hard to get in shape and get the job done. I won’t count Canelo out yet. He’s a great fighter in my opinion. ATG most likely. But I do think for the remainder of his career his fights will be tougher. His opponents will be braver. They saw Bivol challenge his manhood and stand up to him, during his best career run. If he was too young vs Floyd, he wasn’t vs Bivol. That really happened to this current version of Canelo. So now he’s going to get everyone’s best and I expect him to be challenged, hard.

Hey Bread -Have always been curious about your take on what type of careers Ike Ibeabuchi, Edwin Valero and Tony Ayala Jr. would have had, if not for the despicable, heinous crimes they committed outside the ring. Ibeabuchi was on the cusp of a heavyweight title shot, after victories over David Tua and Chris Byrd, and would have probably been a favorite over any of the top heavyweights at that time.  Valero had already won a jr. lightweight championship, was a favorite of the die-hard fight fans and had received a sort of mythical reputation for his raw power and ferociousness.  I still see Valero v Pacquiao mythical match-up discussions online to this day.  And for the younger boxing fans out there, Tony Ayala Jr. was on his way to superstardom back in the early 80's.  "Baby Bull" was fighting on broadcast TV regularly and with his all-action style, was being positioned as a can't miss, future world champion.  In fact, I believe he was in line for a shot at WBA jr. middleweight champion, Davey Moore, before his out-of-the ring troubles. In your opinion, what would their careers look like, if they kept out of trouble and had long runs in the sport?

Reid (Atlanta)

Bread’s Response: Whenever a talented career is cut short, it gets overrated. 100% of the time. Even if the person was great. Because we only see them through the lens of projection from the point they got hurt, died or in trouble. We overrate them naturally. I can give so many examples. It doesn’t matter who it is. Even myself, I will give a quick story. 

I was a very good high school basketball player. I played in a tough public league in Philadelphia. I dislocated my left knee in the 9th grade and my right knee in the 12th grade. So I heard someone say I could’ve been a pro if I didn’t get hurt. Well that’s overrating me. I could’ve been D1. But I wasn’t good enough to be a pro, especially not in the NBA and I don’t have an issue admitting it. I was better than 80% of the guys I ever played against but the NBA is a ridiculous high level of basketball and I just wasn’t good enough. But because of my injury and some big games in high school ,some guys overrated me. 

It’s the same with boxers, especially when they leave the game early at their peaks. I believe Ibeabuchi would have been a real fight for Holyfield, Lewis and Tyson. But it’s no guarantee he would have beat all 3 after the Byrd fight. My guess is he would’ve beaten Tyson in the late 90s. I can’t call a fight between him and Holyfield because Holyfield is a savage and his game rises on certain nights. Holyfield won FOY in 1997. And Ike vs Lewis would have been a great fight. Ibeabuchi may have beaten Lewis but I don’t know for sure because he took clean shots and Lewis was a big puncher with the right hand. Lewis also went on his best career run in 1999-2000. Right during Ibeabuchi’s peak. That would have been a helluva fight. 50/50 in my estimation.

We assume he would’ve won a title. I believe he would have also but it’s not a foregone conclusion and it would depend on who was champion. Ike was in a tough era. An era so tough that Wlad Klitshcko, the 1996 Gold Medalist took almost 10 years to develop into an elite fighter and go on his long unbeaten streak. Wlad was kod 3x before he went on that streak for perspective.

Valero won titles at 130 and 135. He was really emerging. I thought he was real and I remember hearing about him vs Tim Bradley being considered. But I didn’t see him against enough of the elite styles to say how high he could go. He was the closest out of the three.

Ayala was very good. But I don’t think he would have cleaned out his era. He may have beaten Davey Moore but who knows, we judge Morre off of the Duran fight. But I don’t believe he would have beaten Hagler, McCallum and Hearns. All guys lurking in his era in his divisions.

I saw Ayala and his short comings surfaced the most out of the 3. He quit during some fights later when they didn’t go his way. He had some bully in his personality in the ring. For all we know that bully gene could have surfaced vs Hagler if he didn’t hurt Hagler early. Or McCallum. Or if Hearns would have tried to blast him. The boxing ring is a truth machine and Ayala actually showed it in the ring at a later stage after getting off to a good start in a fight vs Yuri Boy Campas. He packed it in when things didn’t go his way.

What do you think of Bam Rodriguez? Is he a top P4P guy and what are his chances vs SSR?

Bread’s Response: I like Bam Rodriguez. I think he’s the real deal. I don’t have him in the top 10 yet but he’s emerging. I actually think he wins vs SSR by decision. But SSR is a hard man. Bam better lock in.

Bam Rodriguez, Shakur Stevenson and Devin Haney are proving fighters don’t have to wait until their late 20s to step up and fight. I’m happy they are doing away with this new trend that just started in the last decade that slows down fighter’s progress.

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