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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Rolando Romero's loss to Gervonta Davis, Canelo Alvarez vs. Gennadiy Golovkin 3, Morales-Barrera 3, Nonito Donaire, Deontay Wilder's return, and more. (photo by Ryan Hafey)
Bread, I thought you were capping when you said Rolly had reflexes and that awkward strong fighters like Rolly are tough if you can’t hurt them. Then when you said between 6-9 a Tank ko, I was thinking no way. It wouldn’t take that long. Salute bro. You’re the best I’ve ever seen at telling how a fight will go. Maybe not actual predictions on the outcome but how a fight goes and a fighter’s strengths and weaknesses, you’re the best. It also sucks that people who have the platform steal your quotes and use them as their own. I’ve peeped it and I know you have. I changed my bet because you scared me and I hit it. You deserve a bigger platform, hopefully you get your flowers sooner than later. By the way did you agree with the stoppage.
Bread’s Response: Thanks but I think if I produce 1 or 2 more champions I will get the platform you’re speaking of. This isn’t the era where 1 trainer will have 10 champions from the ground up, but 1 or 2 more and I will solidify myself. Right now I’m grinding! Honestly it does suck to hear someone repeat something I said as their own. But it’s life. It’s all part of my process.
As for the fight….a few people on twitter said I was capping also. It’s funny to me because I don’t know Tank or Rolly. I have no relationship with either of them and I don’t stand to make a dime off of the fight unless I bet. I thought the fight would be competitive and people got mad at that because they wanted to make it seem Rolly was a bum and Tank was cherry picking and that it would be a 1 or 2 round blow out. So when it wasn’t they wanted to throw insults. But I can’t help what my instincts told me.
Elite level awkward fighters like Rolly are tough fights for more skilled fighters if you can’t hurt them. Ricardo Mayorga literally has kept Vernon Forest out of the Hall of Fame. If Forest beats Mayorga there wasn’t anyone on the rise that I felt could’ve beaten Forest at 147 for the next few years except for maybe Margarito who he didn’t have to fight. Forest couldn’t hurt Mayorga and timing his wild bull rushes threw Forest off.
Tank is a slow starter. He has boxing ability. And the young man is smart. He may not be articulate and formally educated but he’s smart. I listened to him talking about panicking. Talking about having fun. Even during the fight I heard him tell someone, not yet. He’s still strong. At the weigh in he pushed Rolly because he wanted Rolly to become careless and make mistakes. Tank knew Rolly would be tough. He beat Rolly with his mind.
I thought the fight was being contested on even terms or Rolly was winning. That was a very competitive fight. And true to form, Tank came through when he had to with a big shot and big adjustment. Rolly was practicing that swivel hybrid hook/jab and Tank rocked back and countered it. Rolly is hard to lead against because like I said he’s twitchy and powerful. If you look at Rolly he’s a lot bigger than Tank and he’s very forceful. People will call me a Rolly lover and I’m really not. I don’t know the kid. But if there is no residual effect of this ko. And he can still make 135lbs where he will have his physicality. Then he’s a handful for the guys at 130-135. Because Tank is the biggest puncher out of the crew. Tank also seems to have a good chin. Rolly has improved since he seemed to be outboxed a few fights ago. The Rolly that fought last night would give most of the top guys problems because they can’t hurt him and he’s going to bully them.
As for Tank, you guys have to throw your feelings out. It’s obvious he doesn’t have a great resume and he’s 27 years old. But his resume is solid. Rolly, Mario Barrios and Jose Pedraza were all undefeated and in their primes. Santa Cruz and Cruz are legit Ring top 10 guys in their weight divisions. Tank defeated them all. I’m not going to say he doesn’t have privileged matchmaking or he has a great resume. But his resume is solid and he has delivered in dramatic convincing fashion. I’m not saying he has to be in the P4P top 10. But he deserves consideration. Strong consideration. He’s a talented kid, who is more than just a puncher.
I’m torn on the stoppage here is why….boxers are allowed to be hurt. And they deserve the chance to fight through it. There is no doubt Rolly was hurt. But he wasn’t taking a beating. He wasn’t being wobbled and beat up. I think Tank landed 25 punches in 6 rounds. So Rolly got dropped at the end of the round…. He got up and he showed the ref his gloves and he was asked to step over and he did. He did what he was asked. Yes he was shaken but I just don’t know if you stop that fight. We can all conclude Tank would have knocked him out. I believe he would have also.
But I’m not in the business of given someone credit for something they haven’t done. Maybe Rolly takes a knee. Maybe he holds. There was only about 20 seconds left in the round. It was a great punch. Tank did a great job. I don’t want to make this a controversial stoppage. I have seen worse. But I honestly feel like a fighter who only took 25 punches in 6 rounds. Who had never been stopped or knocked down. Who was being extremely competitive. Who beat the count and did what he was asked to do. Has a right to see if he can get back to his corner and see if he can get through the fire. If we get to a point where every time a fighter is wobbled or hurt, the fight gets stopped we will become too squeamish as a sport. For the record it wasn’t the worst stoppage I’ve ever seen. I thought the ref did a good job throughout the fight keeping things as clean as possible. I’m just torn on if you stop a fight the 1st time an undefeated fighter gets hurt, who beat the count and did what he was asked to do. If Tank is my fighter, I’m happy it’s stopped. If Rolly is my fighter, I would be upset and would have liked to see if he could have survived the last 21 seconds and got back to the corner. I would have told him to hold and take a knee to kill time. It’s better to get a 10-7 round than get stopped.
Hi Bread,
Best column in boxing by one of the best trainers boxing, period. I hope the readers appreciate the time you put in! Short question regarding big George Foreman. He basically had 2 careers, both very different, both great. Not to mention he was excellent in commentary. How do you see a young and an old George go against the current top 4 HWs being: Fury, Usyk, AJ, Wilder
Cheers, GK from Aus.
Bread’s Response: Thank you. I think young George is the most powerful fighter ever. I think he beats Wilder and Joshua. Not sure on Usyk and Fury. But I feel more comfortable picking him to beat Usyk than I do Fury. The old George is one of the most resilient fighters in history. I think he beats Wilder and Joshua again. But loses decisions to Usyk and Fury.
Hey Bread - Hope all has been well on your end as we approach the summer months. Had an interesting thought in relation to a concept you brought up recently and how it relates re: Canelo. In a recent mailbag, I believe it was right before the Canelo-Bivol fight, you argued that the best time to fight an elite fighter was when they looked invincible. I don't remember exactly what you said, I just scrolled (unsuccessfully) through a few mailbags to try and find your exact words, but I believe it was something along the lines of that when a fighter gets in one of those streaks (if they're fighting the best available guys) they're due for a drop down in performance. Just the nature of life. (Please correct me if I misspoke, my intention is not to put words in your mouth, just to contextualize my question following it). With that concept in mind, can you explain the mentality of that same fighter, who was just on an elite level streak, immediately after he loses that streak? In previous mailbags, you haven't quite gone into the mental aspect of this, but you have confirmed that once a streak like this is shattered, every fight for this boxer will be hard there on out. I.e once the air of invincibility is gone, every challenger will think they have a chance... every challenger will fight as hard as possible, etc etc.
Taking it further, is this fight between Canelo and GGG now...suddenly...competitive? Am I crazy to even think that coming off such a loss, Canelo may have some chinks in his MENTAL armor that a physically older, but mentally still elite GGG, can now exploit? I'm just confused with Canelo's rationale to take the GGG trilogy immediately after the loss with Bivol. I watched Wilder hold out for his trilogy with Fury after being totally outclassed in their rematch. I watched Joshua immediately trigger his rematch with Ruiz after being knocked down 4x. I watched Fury overcome his own demons and commit to fighting the most dangerous HW (at the time) within 6 months of his dramatic return to the sport. As a trainer, wouldn't you want to see an elite fighter jump immediately back in with a guy who...yes, outclassed him on the night...but only did so on points? Is there some type of mental indication as to Canelo's decision to forego the immediate rematch and go with the better business decision/"safer" decision? Seems like GGG-Canelo 3 won't only be competitive now but can also potentially become dangerous for Canelo if his mental side isn't 100% where it was since the GGG rematch. -shrug- Would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks, as always.
Ken
Bread’s Response: What I said was fighters who have been red hot for a few fights are the best to fight. Because you get the most credit for beating them and they are due for an off night. When I say off night I mean come back down to earth and give their baseline performance. I likened it to basketball when you see a great player get 60 points. He most likely won’t get 60 in back to back games. And if he does he surely won’t get 60 three times in a row.
Canelo was on his best career run. He’s looked better than he had ever looked at anytime in his career. I felt it was the perfect time to fight him. In this era when a fighter is hot, the field ducks him. But I think it’s best to run to him and try to beat him. When a fighter is hot and he loses. Often times he goes into a performance slump and it takes a few fights to get his mojo back.
In some cases I have seen fighters take immediate rematches and lose. Some cases I’ve seen them win. In Shane Mosley’s case he took 2 immediate rematches vs Vernon Forest and Winky Wright. He lost them both and he went in a big career slump because of it. In some other cases like Ray Leonard beating Duran in their rematch he took off for the stars. It depends on the fighter and it depends on the mindset.
Personally if I felt my fighter could do better or if the opponent fought over their head I would take the immediate rematch. If my guy was dominated and I didn’t feel we could do any better I would avoid it. In Canelo’s case I think he picked the right direction. He’s fought GGG before. He knows what he brings to the table. Plus GGG is smaller and older than Bivol. In boxing we all assume things but no one knows until two men get in the ring. I feel like Canelo thought that Bivol would fold under his pressure. Bivol has come off as tepid over the last few years. He was handpicked for a reason but that doesn’t mean it has to be true. Often times the fighter who wins a fight when he handpicks his opponents, gets discredited because the opponent was handpicked. But they still have to win and execute. Canelo thought Bivol would be easier than he was and that was his mistake. Canelo is human he miscalculated Bivol’s abilities. So did I.
Canelo also looked worn and fatigued. That’s what happens when you’re performing at optimum level for so long. You’re CNS (Central Nervous System) starts to burn. Canelo can’t fight tomato cans. So he picked GGG. A 40 year old fighter who he fought twice. In this current situation I understand totally why. The one thing I will say I agree with Canelo on is getting right back in the ring. I think a big mistake is to wait years to fight again. As a fighter you don’t want to sit around and over analyze the loss. I see fighters take off 2 years because of a loss. Unless you’re physically damaged that doesn’t do any good.
When Tommy Hearns lost his 1st fight to Ray Leonard in September of 1981. Hearns fought again before Leonard did. Hearns fought in December of 1981 to get that bad taste out of his mouth. Leonard didn’t fight again until February of 1982. I definitely believe in getting back in there and erasing that bad taste out of your mouth.
Hello Breadman,
To my eyes it looked like Tank had Rolly's range and timing down in the 4th round, at that point I thought it was a matter of time. The difference in experience showed. Rolly put up a good fight and he can come again once he has time to process the loss and accept it. He's not easy for anyone at 135. I don't like the way he's been talking after the loss but I understand it. I also think he's clearly a smart kid so I do have hope he can be humble about it. I am rooting for him for the future. After we (hopefully) get Spence vs Crawford, the next megafight in boxing....... Tank vs Shakur? Nobody is talking about it yet but I'm already hyped for it. What do you think about Tank vs Shakur and who would you give the edge to? Surely this fight has to happen down the line.
Much respect
Bread’s Response: I think Tank was starting to time Rolly by the 4th , but not completely. I think Tank is clutch and he knew he needed a big shot to clip Rolly because working for the ko and breaking Rolly down was too dangerous for him. Tank didn’t land any jabs and he barely went to the body. So while Rolly wasn’t being worn down physically mentally it takes focus to be on perfect point all night long. So Rolly raised up after he threw a body shot and Tank being the more in tune fighter caught him. That was clutch and big time by Tank. But make no mistake Rolly was in the fight and he was a real threat. I would’ve liked to see if Tank could’ve taken over without the big punch. That would show me exactly where he is at this point.
I don’t like to say what would happen if a fighter doesn’t get caught because it takes away from the fighter who did catch him. But I felt like Rolly was getting the slight better of the work/action. I feel like when a fighter is reduced to landing a 1 punch ko shot, then the other fighter is boxing well. Rolly was boxing well. He may be unconventional. But he’s a talent.
Tank vs Shakur is a super fight. And I never usually say this but it’s not ready. Shakur is at 130lbs. Devin Haney is the favorite to beat George Kambosos for all of the belts at 135lbs. At that point Tank will have an option of the winner of Haney vs Kambosos or Ryan Garcia. I would say by the 2nd half of 2013 the Davis vs Stevenson fight will have reached a higher algorithm in terms of demand.
Right now if I were making a ranking of fighters I would put Shakur Stevenson a tiny smidge over Tank Davis because Davis gives up too many rounds. I’m nitpicking and splitting hairs but if you ask me that’s what I will do. It doesn’t mean Shakur is better, they will have to fight to decide that. But when 2 guys haven’t fought, then that’s a fair comparison. Stevenson barely loses a round and Davis consistently loses rounds vs his better opponents. But let me say this. Head to head is different. Tank is respectful to big punchers. Mario Barrios and Rolly Romero are bigger than him and they can hurt him. When Tank doesn’t respect your power, he applies that DMV high guard walk down game. I would be interested to see how Tank fights Shakur. So in terms of head to head at this point I don’t know who wins.
Hi Bread, I really enjoy your mailbag and getting your take on all things boxing. You have definitely influenced how I look at the sport. My question is about Barrera and Morales, I like both fighters and it's great that they are friends now as well. We all know what happened in their trilogy but whose career would you place higher historically? I can't split them. Both were great, Morales late career efforts vs Maidana and Danny Garcia 1 were incredible considering he was way past his best and the fights were at 140lbs. Barreras late run wasn't as good and EM has a great win over Paquiao but then MB wins the head to head and his fight vs Naz was massive at the time so overall I'm not sure.
MM: Josh Taylor v Kostya Tszyu (140), Mayweather v Pacquiao (lets say 135lb versions), James Toney v Nigel Benn & Chris Eubank (168)
Thanks,
Steve, UK
Bread’s Response: Morales vs Barrera comparison is really close. They’re both among the top 5 fighters ever Junior Feather weight (122lbs). Both are among the top 10 fighters of the 90s and 2000s. Both are among the top ever from Mexico. So we would have to split hairs. So let’s split them.
Morales had 9 defenses of his WBC title at 122lbs. Barrera had 8 defenses. Both beat solid fighters. I thought Barrera beat Morales in their 1st fight and if he got the official decision that would really separate them. But he dropped him in the 12th round and I just can’t see a way where Morales won that fight. I really believed they screwed Barrera. But Barrera did lose to Junior Jones twice at the weight, while Morales stopped him. Barrera won the title 3x at 122lbs, which is excellent in terms of resume quality. If you ask me who the greater fighter was a 122lbs it’s tough but I say Barrera and that was probably their best weight.
At 126lbs Barrera got his revenge in a fight people think Morales won. Both got quality work done at 126lbs. Barrera beat Kevin Kelley, Johnny Tapia, Paulie Ayala and an undefeated Naseem Hamed. He was stopped by Pacquiao. Morales also beat Kevin Kelley and a tough In Jin Chi but Barrera performed better at 126lbs. Morales won the title again at 130 and unified but Barrera settled the score and won the rubber match. But Morales picked up one of the biggest wins of the decade vs Pacquiao. Morales had now outperformed Barrera vs Pacquiao and Junior Jones so that counts.
The problem for Morales is after defeating Pacquiao he lost 4 fights in a row to Zahir Raheem, Pac 2x and David Diaz for the title at 135lbs. He was able to win his 4th division title at 140lbs vs Pablo Cano.
Barrera was only able to win 3 division titles but he won the 122lb 3x. Barrera lost to Marquez in a fight I thought he won for the WBC title at 130lbs. Morales rose higher in weight and lasted a little longer. But Barrera is 3 years older and he has more fights and less losses. Barrera also only lost bad once and that was to Pacquiao. Morales was more inconsistent and turned in more off nights. Morales also tested positive for PEDS where as Barrera never did. And when you’re splitting hairs and considering Morales’s late push at 140lbs it’s a factor.
If you twist my arm I will go with Barrera. When I watch their 36 rounds together I thought Barrera was an 1/8 inch better. Not much but slightly. They both meet every criterion you want in an ATG fighter. But Barrera was more consistent, he beat him head to head 2 out of 3 and he was never dominated close to his prime except once vs Pacman. Morales’s losses were more lopsided and he lost to lesser fighters than Barrera and that’s my deciding factor. Barrera only lost to HOF level fighters and they were all competitive except Pacman 1.
Ssup Bread,1. Basis my observation, in order to throw any other punch besides a jab, a boxer will have to plant his feet. At max, I have seen some boxers sneak in a straight punch when they change the direction in which they are circling. For example, I saw Hearns do that against Leonard in their first fight. When Leonard clipped Hearns and Hearns started to 'stick and move' in the next round, he sneaked in a straight punch right at the moment he changed the direction in which he was circling. Please educate me on the matter.
Is it possible for a boxer to throw any other punch on the fly besides the jab?2. Commonly held view regarding Floyd is that he was much more fun till lightweight and then he started having hand injuries and became a conservative counter puncher the moment he moved to 140. That is not what I see. What I see is that from 130 to 135, he was much more mobile and used to punch on the fly. Though he was more of a volume punching guy back then and had descent power for 130 and 135 lbs guys. This made his fight more enjoyable back then. From 140 onwards, what I noticed was that he became much more economical with his movement but not his hands. He used to punch a lot and this continued till he once again went back to his father after signing with Showtime.
While he was great at countering, I wouldn't categorize him a counter-puncher. At least not until the moment he rejoined his father in 2013. There were a few fights, where he fought like a pure counter-puncher. For example, he fought like a pure counter-puncher against Marquez but he also slugged it out against N'Dou and Augustus and fought on front foot against Mosley and Judah. I never saw him punch on the fly once he moved to 140 but that is because he didn't need to. He was economical with his movement. Even against Pacquiao, Canelo and Maidana, while he was very mobile, he didn't punch on the fly. Almost all his punches were thrown when his feet were planted. How would you categorize Floyd's fighting style?
Regards,
Saurabh
Bread’s Response: Fighters can throw other punchers off the jab on the move. As you said Hearns hit Leoanrd with a lead right hand. Lots of guys can land straight shots off the move. Hooks and uppercuts are harder but it can be done. I’ve seen Nonito Donaire and Naseem Hamed knock guys out cold on the move with hooks and uppercuts. It’s just something you can to careful of because of you miss you can get clipped.
Floyd Mayweather is a chameleon. I’ve seen go in counter puncher mode like he did with Marquez. I’ve seen him go in high guard walk down mode like he did Judah and Mosley. I’ve see him play it safe and box but score his points like he did in Canelo and Oscar. I’ve seen him blitz guys like he did Gatti and Ndou. And yes you’re astute because he punched on the move vs Diego Corrales. I think once he got older he found a more efficient way to do things. Also sometimes what happens is if you don’t do something for a long time, you can lose it. I don’t know if he lost it or not but I think if he did punch on the move more at the higher weights he would have been more dominant. But fighters evolve according to their instincts and where they are at certain times of their careers. Good pick up.
Hey Bread, sounds like you really think a Donaire KO can happen. I think the same thing, sadly, as I'm a huge Donaire and Inoue fan (I'd rather the younger guy take the torch). I think it'll be a great value bet though what do you think the odds will be of Donaire KO? Me and my friend were thinking about who has had the highest percentage of championship rounds won in their career. It's gotta be Vitali, right? Who do you think has the toughest style for Benavidez at 168 between Canelo, Charlo, Boo Boo, Plant? Who do you have as an early favorite for trainer of the year this year based on what they've done and maybe some fights lined up? (Obviously it's still very early)
Thanks, Jake
Bread’s Response: Nonito Donaire can ko any man in history at 118lbs if he hits him right. I’m not picking him to win but he can win. He’s seen Inoue before and he’s gifted. Out of this word gifted.
I have no idea who has won the highest % of championship rounds in their career. That’s a hard stat to ponder but Vitali seems like a solid pick. If we are picking off the top of our heads I have a pick for you. Ricardo Lopez. I don’t have time to research my pick but if you do let me know if I was correct.
Who has the toughest style for Benavidez? Whoever executes their game plan the best on the big night. But it’s the fighter who quells Benavidez’s offense.
Trainer of the Year. Derrick James seems to be the front runner and if Errol Spence beats Terence Crawford this year James will most likely get it. But Terence Crawford’s trainers will also have a good shot at winning if they beat Errol Spence. For the record I don’t like to get into awards yet this early in the year. We aren’t half way done yet and with top guys fighting once or twice it’s tough because. If you’re the losing trainer in one big fight its tough. It’s not really who had the best year because head line trainers have off tv fights that we may not know about or record. It’s what trainer won the biggest fight that the media also likes.
Good evening Bread I hope this finds you good. My best to you & yours.
Deontay says he's coming back. I'm unsure about this. He is, I think, 36 & he took a brutal beating last time out from a much bigger man. That was sustained punishment, made sustained by Deontay's sheer courage, & for his own sake he shouldn't subject himself to much more of that.If he is back who do you think he fights? I'm guessing he will have a relatively easy knockover & then target a man who can get him back in the frame. To me, Deontay could beat Dillian Whyte or Joseph Parker & still find himself well on the outside of the contenders, so he would be better trying to fight a prospect like Joe Joyce, Frank Sanchez, Otto Wallin or the winner of Bryan v Dubois. Who, of those guys, do you give Deontay best chance against?What would worry me is Deontay is a one-trick pony, Its a good trick, but it relies on him moving forward & throwing the '1-2' very fast. Everyone knows its coming but boxers as good as Ortiz & Fury haven't been able to evade it over 12. IF, however, Deontay is starting to slow down, then he will be easier & easier to avoid & time.I would keep him away from Sanchez & target one of the other 3.
Your thoughts, Bread?
Bread’s Response: If Wilder is coming back that’s always good for boxing. A big punching US star in the division is always a good thing. Wilder did take a beating but we don’t know how he will respond because we haven’t seen him fight. I hope he hurries up and gets back. I hate to see fighters take years after a loss. A few months rest(6 monthish) then get it out of your mind and fight. Wilder has nothing to be ashamed of, he lost to a great fighter.
The more concerning thing for Wilder for me is if he’s slowed down. He seems to want to pack muscle on and I’ve always believed he was big enough between 210-20. I think the bulk slowed him down a little and it compromised his endurance. People don’t realize those were his biggest strengths not his punching power. Lot’s of guys can punch. But they can’t deliver the shot or they get too tired to deliver it. Wilder was murder in the late rounds for heavyweights.
I’ve always believed Wilder would’ve kod Whyte within 2 rounds. I let people say whatever they wanted about Wilder ducking him. It’s just a bad match up for Whyte in my opinion. Whyte reacts too slow to punches and he gets hit with too many big shots he doesn’t see. You can’t have that issue with Wilder or you’re going to sleep. You’re a good matchmaker because I think Whyte would be the perfect fight. I wouldn’t mess with Sanchez or Joyce but Wilder is gutsy. I think he would fight anybody. He just seems to be that type of guy. He proved in the trilogy fight with Fury that he meant what he said about being willing to die in a boxing ring.
I've seen you comment lately regarding fighter's walkout songs - namely the Davis v Romero fight, but also the Spence - Ugas fight recently. This is no doubt a big part of the game that a lot of fighters seem to miss, and it got me curious.
What are some of your most memorable walkout moments, and have you ever seen a fighter totally change the energy inside of an arena (maybe even on hostile turf), purely based on the song they came out to? Also, what would be your walkout track if you had a fight tomorrow?
Love, William
Bread’s Response: If I had a walkout song it would be 1 of 3 songs. It would depend on the opponent and odds against me but 3 songs come to my mind when a fighter is willing to go “there” The Darkest of Places. In no order “In the Air” By Phil Collins. “Change Gonna Come” By Sam Cooke. “Dream On” By Aerosmith. If you come out to any of those 3, you come to BUMP. The walkout should send a message.
Memorable Walkout songs. Jermaine Taylor came out to a song vs Winky Wright I can’t quite think of the name but I got goose bumps. Riddick Bowe came out to In the Air vs Holyfield and I knew Holyfield was in trouble. Holyfield was my guy. There have been a few other but those stand out in memory as I type this.
With Haney’s father being allowed in Australia at the last minute does that influence your pick in Haney vs Kambosos? I saw your comments on twitter asking who were the judges? You must feel it’s a distance fight.
Bread’s Response: I don’t know if Haney’s dad being in Australia will make a difference but I’m glad he’s there to be by his son’s side. I like Haney to win a decision. I think Haney’s jab will be a big factor. Haney has a case for having the best jab in boxing. I expect Kambosos to give a big effort but I think Haney takes it.
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