The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Teofimo Lopez's big win over Vasiliy Lomachenko, the situation with DAZN's content, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez compared to Lopez, career of Donald Curry, and more.
You called everything except Loma for the win. I still want to thank you because I didn’t bet Loma because you scared me off of him. The size, physicality, range and youthful reflexes were just too much. I thought Loma closed well but he gave up too many of the earlier rounds. What did you score the fight? Where do both go from now? Also did you hear Tim Bradley say that Loma is ordinary if he can’t step around you? Why does Bradley continuously disrespect fighters being an ex fighter himself?
Bread’s Response: Yes I don’t regret picking Loma but I was scared to bet. Size, Youth and Range are very hard to overcome considering their speed looks about equal and Loma has to press the fight because of the RANGE factor. Mikey Garcia had the same exact issues with Errol Spence.
It should make people appreciate Ray Leonard’s win over Hearns in their 1st fight even more. Diabolis Hurtado is not even a great fighter but look at the fits he gave Pernell Whitaker in their fight with the physical attributes I just stated.
I think math is very important while watching a fight. I think Loma lost 5 of the first 6 rounds. So at that point all Lopez needs to do is win 2 out of the next 6. I think he probably did that. I wasn’t scoring the fight but the Lopez rounds were easy to score early. Loma only won round 2 going into the 2nd half. He turned it on but I don’t think he swept the 2nd half because he lost round 12. So that’s 6 rounds for Lopez. If Lopez stole any rounds from 7-11 then he won the fight. So the worst Lopez could have gotten was a DRAW. And the best is 8 rounds to 4. I think a fair score card is 7 rounds to 5 or 115-113.
I think the sky is the limit for Lopez. He can fight Loma again or he can fight Devin Haney. He could also move up to 140lbs. Lopez just hit the lottery and he should be a wealthy man for the rest of his life and this is what this game is all about. Get your big wins and money early. Secure your finances and your legacy before your body starts to slip.
I really don’t know where Loma goes. He can try for a rematch but it will take a monumental effort. I know he won 5 rounds but Lopez will be a year better and he’s going to be a year older. Loma could return to 130lbs but Shakur Stevenson is there. He would have some of the same issues that he had vs Lopez except Stevenson is not as concussive of a puncher, so he most likely wouldn’t be as hesitant to engage. I wouldn’t be surprised if Loma retired. He looked BURNED out at the end. He needed that 12th round in his mind and he just couldn’t do it. It was telling. I keep telling you guys that if a pressure fighter is clean. He’s done by his early 30s.
I did hear Tim Bradley’s comments. I really don’t know what to say. I thought they were pretty harsh but that’s Bradley’s opinion and he has a right to it.
Hey Breadman your mailbag is a must read for me every Saturday. Keep up the good work.
On to the fight, congrats to Lopez he showed true heart and will in that 12th round, He closed the show in champion form.He set the tone in the first 2 rounds. He cut off the ring, and kept Loma at the end of his jab and checked him to the body every chance he got. Loma on the other hand overmoved for the first 6 rounds without really putting anything on Lopez, the question is, was it Ring rust from the long layoff or was it overconfidence that he could let the young gun shoot his load. and then put it on him and down the stretch? he did seem to hurt Lopez once or twice once he decided to on offense. Also the scorecards were a little wide IMO. Did you see the fight that wide? or are judges so used to seeing Loma dominate that anything less seems like as letdown. Also that Kid Berlanga is a brute thudding, power ala Foreman.
At 6'1 how high in weight could you see him going?
Sasso
NYC
Bread’s Response: I don’t think Loma was rusty. I don’t think he was overconfident. If he were over confident he would have stepped to Lopez earlier. He’s never waited until the 7th round before to step to an opponent. I think he showed Lopez just a little too much respect. Lopez is sharp and he can punch and Loma felt it and he wasn’t willing to engage until Lopez settled off of his sharpness a bit. The problem is you can’t lose 7 rounds in a 12 round fight.
I also think Loma is a 32 year old pressure fighter with over 400 fights, amateur, world series of boxing and professional boxing. He’s fighting at his ceiling weight and these young guns are not easy to deal with.
I think the fight could have been anywhere between 114-114 and 116-112. Loma did NOT WIN. His best case is a draw and I think Lopez has a better case for a win. Lopez fought an excellent fight and I honestly think it was more of what he did and not what Loma didn’t do.
Lopez did not allow himself to be out of position often. Loma wants to bait his opponents out of position and Lopez didn’t allow it. Lopez went to the body. He kept a jab on Loma regardless if it landed or not. He was throwing fire at Loma. Loma wanted to press earlier but he didn’t because Lopez could have clipped him. So he miscalculated and waited and hoped for a late stoppage but he spent his load that’s why he lost the 12th.
Edgar Berlanga looks like a big puncher for sure. He’s also very accurate. And he doesn’t load up on his shots. He throws shots with his feet set, without tipping off too much. I want to see more. I think he’s ready for top 15 type of guys and ex world title challengers. They don’t want him to go into a world title fight with all 1st round kos.
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As a Lomachenko fan, I was disappointed. I thought he would win, rooted for him to win, but I was disappointed. Will I root for him in the future? Sure. But at the moment I’m disappointed. Disappointed by his slow start, disappointed by his overly-cautious approach (even though I understand his caution) and I was especially disappointed to see him pull an Isaiah Thomas after the cards were announced. That really pissed me off. Not cool Loma.
I admit I’m writing this after just watching the fight, so I might be more than a little emotional. Disappointment aside, well done for Lopez. He had a great game plan he executed it well. I thought the scorecards were a little wide (especially the 119-109 card) but they gave it to the right guy. I will swallow the bile and say congratulations Teofimo. I still thing he needs to ditch his insufferably arrogant father, but to each their own. It’s still working... for now.
Meanwhile, where does Loma go from here? I imagine it would be a little late in the game to try again for undisputed in any of his weight classes? Yes? No? Go back to 130? I assume Lopez goes up to 140 now... what do you think?
Bread’s Response: When we mentally invest into a fighter, sometimes when they don’t perform up to our expectations we become disappointed. It’s natural. But unless a fighter disrespects the GAME I have learned to cut them some slack. Loma didn’t QUIT. He just ran into a young, sharp, big, strong, hard punching kid and he couldn’t engage early because he could’ve been clipped. He banked on stopping Lopez late and Lopez was determined and in condition and he knew where the finish line was. That inspires a fighter when he can see the finish line.
I picked Loma too and I have said openly I believe he’s a HOF fighter. And I’m not disappointed. The only thing I will criticize is him not going to the body. I think he’s a harder body puncher than he is a head puncher and even when he turned it on, he didn’t invest enough in the body. Lopez was NOT depleted in the 2nd half. He was slightly winded but Loma did not put enough hurt on him to deplete him.
Hi Bread
Hope you and your talented kids are well.
Is Eddie Hearn's inexperience coming to the fore? I feel teaming with DAZN hasn't worked out, nor trying to crack America.
How good is his match making, ability to sign fights and fighter development?
Is he addicted to social media?
Bread’s Response: My kids are doing great. It’s football and basketball season right now.
I would never discredit Eddie Hearn. I don’t watch him close enough to have anything bad to say about him.
But overall I am disappointed in DAZN. They have loads of middleweight and super middleweight talent and they haven’t delivered in my opinion yet. The best fight so far has been Canelo vs Danny Jacobs which is excellent but we have not got Andrade vs anyone of note. Saunders vs anyone of note. GGG vs anyone of note. Callum Smith vs anyone of note. And Canelo seems disgruntled. I have no idea what’s going on but it can’t be good.
I just love to see good fights. I don’t care what channel they are on. I do like some commentators better than others but I can deal with that as long as the fights are good. I subscribed to DAZN thinking we were going to get SUPERFIGHTS but it hasn’t happened.
Breadman,
Here's a quote from your latest mailbag in reference to Lopez' relationship with his dad: "He seems hurt but I don’t want to get into it. It’s complex and in the end it can be a gift and a curse. I’ve had a similar relationship and your emotions become an enigma. They are all over the place."
I really enjoy your mailbag and your takes on a number of topics, but I just wanted to tell you thanks for those words. In my own life I've had these strained family relationships and often I've had a hard time describing exactly what's going on or how I feel. Not sure if you were specifically talking about boxing relationships, father-son relationships, or relationships in general, but your words about emotions being an enigma in these situations are spot on. Sometimes you're up, sometimes down. Sometimes you blame them for most everything and sometimes you blame yourself. Sometimes all you want is to be at peace with them and sometimes you just want to grab them and set 'em straight.
Anyway, thanks again.
John
Bread’s Response: I was talking about boxing relationships and relationships in general with our parents. It can be difficult and complex. Often times my coping is to just walk away and distance myself from anything that becomes trying or hard as far as close relationships especially in boxing. A wise man once told me, if it’s not fun don’t do it. A take that too heart and unless it’s concerning my children, I feel I’ve paid enough dues in my life to not do anything I don’t enjoy.
It’s tough being a father who is a trainer and a trainer who is a father figure. You have to often times step into your fighter’s personal life because it affects his boxing life. I know this first hand. But I don’t want to speculate on the relationship because Lopez and his father. Obviously it’s stressed he cried during an interview. That’s raw emotions. I suppose both are hurt. Both see things their way. I think they will be ok as long as Teofimo is winning. Let’s see how it plays out. Hopefully it turns out good because the love you have for your kids is like no other.
You're the best man. Follower since Boxingtalk days. What's your take on Loma vs Lopez? I think Team Lopez is way to confident though they don't seem to have a plan B. As if is a matter of fate rather than strategy. I think they are leaning too much on Lopez youth, size, power and fearlessness. I'm afraid his "meanness" instead of character will cost him and he will become increasingly frustrated. He doesn't even seem to be emotionally stable due to issues with his father. I even see him fouling Loma in the 2nd half of the fight. I see in Loma a better athlete, a more talented boxer and by far the higher IQ. I believe Team Lopez is failing to properly prepare and after this Teo will go thru a depression from which he can hopefully bounce back and be great again.
All the best from Miami!
Bread’s Response: I posted your comment after the fight for a reason. The reason is unless you are inside the camp, everything is speculation. We all speculate on WHY the fighter we want to win, will win. Teo did show a good IQ. I don’t know if they had a plan B or not but they didn’t need it. He also didn’t have to show deep character because he was UP the whole fight. That’s a testament to his skill set.
I don’t know if Loma is a better athlete. I think it’s close. I think Loma may be slightly more skillful and their god given talent levels are also close. But Lopez is a BIGGER and he has more physicality by a lot. He’s also 9 years younger.
We also have to give props to Teofimo Lopez Sr. and Joey Gamache. They did an excellent job coaching and training him. He was very well prepared despite what looked like a stressed relationship.
Hey breadman, can you do a career recap on donald curry please? How good was he? Was he on his way to being an atg? Did he underachieve? How would a fight with him and ray leonard played out if ray hadnt retired in 82? Thank you.
Bread’s Response: Donald Curry was a GREAT FIGHTER. He just wasn’t an all time great fighter. I think he was the 4th best welterweight of the 80s. I think he’s even in terms of head to head match ups with the likes of Tito Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley and Vernon Forest.
However, he did underachieve. If you are the P4P #2 fighter in the world you can’t lose as bad as he did to Lloyd Honeyghan. And if you do you have to rebound and make it into just an off night. I loved Curry as a fighter. His wins over Collin Jones, Milton McCrory, Nino Larocca, Roger Stafford and Marlon Starling 1&2 are on youtube. When you see that type of peak it makes you wonder why he struggled so badly in his mid 20s vs Honeyghan and McCallum. Curry actually regained a junior middleweight title after the McCallum lost but he then lost it to a journeyman level fighter.
Some say he burned out because of his 400 amateur fights. Some say drug issues. Some say he couldn’t handle the Honeyghan loss.
Here is my take. I think he stayed at welterweight too long. He had very thick legs for the weight. I think he compartmentalized that loss because he knew he had weight issues. I think his luck just became hard pressed after that. He kept winning but the next 2 fights were won by Disqualification. Then he was doing excellent vs McCallum and was knocked out cold. That ruined him in my opinion. After that he just couldn’t seem to mentally take resistance. He would make good stands but he would give. And obviously you can’t keep losing badly in your 20s and early 30s and be an ATG unless you had unreal accomplishments before the losses came in. Curry was excellent before the slide but he wasn’t Ray Leonard.
Curry looked to be as good as Leonard, Hearns and Benitez. He came shortly after they left the division. I think he had a chance to beat them all but knowing what I know now I couldn’t pick him to beat Leonard in 1982. Leonard is an ATG and Curry is GREAT. It’s no shame in being great it’s just not ATG.
Breadman ,
Enjoyed reading your comments about Joe Frazier . He was a first class heavyweight champion . You made a comment about if he were fighting now he would have the advantage of modern recovery methods . I know there are trade secrets , but could you elaborate more on this . Very interesting stuff . He was already a fifteen round explosive fighter . How would how he trained then versus now make him better . I allways wanted to ask you, prime to prime , Joe Frazier vs Joe Louis .
Jermell Charlo vs John the Beast Mugabi at 154
Thank You
J.B.
Bread’s Response: Modern Recovery consist of Stem Cell Therapy. Diets to raise testosterone legally. High Quality Recovery Shakes containing Protein, BCAAs and Carbs. Pre Work Outs that allow you to work, longer harder and faster. Also exercises to increase the muscle groups you are targeting. Joe Frazier would be a MONSTER if he fought now.
I can’t say his exact training methods because your beliefs change with the times. But he had a smart team. He would have adapted.
Prime Frazier vs Prime Louis. Give me Louis by late ko in an all time great fight.
Jermell Charlo vs John Mugabi. Dam this is a tough one. Mugabi had better amateur pedigree and everything he did before the and during the Hagler fight leads me to believe he may have edged it. But Charlo always lands his clutch shots. He has a way about him. But in dealing with Mugabi, he can’t allow himself to take the shots he has taken in his harder fights. Mugabi is an all time puncher. And because of his pedigree I think he’s as good as a boxer. It’s really a coin flip but twist my arm I say Mugabi. He may punch a bit too hard and Jermell has a good chin but you don’t want Mugabi hitting you clean. He was 26-0 with 26kos going into the Hagler fight. Next week if you ask me I may go with Charlo. This is really a close fight.
In past mailbags, you have used amalgams and combinations of past fighters to illustrate the styles and approaches of current fighters. For instance, you have said Vasyl Lomachenko is a combo of Pernell Whitaker and Joe Calzaghe, while Gervonta Davis is a combo of Zab Judah and Mike Tyson. I think you once said Errol Spence is like Marvin Hagler and Donald Curry and that Boots Ennis is like Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather. I really like these combination analogies, as they help me to get a proper visual image of the style of a given fighter.
This brings me to my question: What combination of fighters do you see in Naoya Inoue and Teofimo Lopez? Monster is one of my favorites, and I’m curious who you see in Lopez after his upset over Lomachenko.
Bread’s Response: Spence is more like mix Hagler and McCallum after I think about it. He touches the body more than Curry. Boots Ennis I said is a mix of Too Sharp Johnson and Roy Jones.
Monster Inoue let’s see. I would say Nonito Donaire and Michael Carbajal. And Teofimo Lopez. Ooh let’s see. I think he’s a mix of Zab Judah and Fernando Vargas. How do you like em?
I know you’ve said you don’t usually score fights (not live anyway). Do you ever watch a fight again and score with a pad and pencil? You strike me as the type that scores a fight once and then never looks back. Anyway, I wanted your take on the Loma-Lopez scorecards. In only a couple days, that’s become a pretty big talking point for fans.
It seems like the opinions on the scorecards are as wide and varied as the scorecards themselves. Ask a person or check a boxing site and you will get a different answer. I think Bloody Elbow scored it 115-113 Lopez, I think CBS Sports had it 116-112 Lopez, and Andre Ward had it 114-114. Almost everyone agrees that the 119-109 card was just plain bad and gave Loma too little credit.
I didn’t score it with a pad and pencil, but I thought Lopez won. At worst, I though Loma won 3 rounds and at best 5. I like SOG and respect him as an analyst and commentator, but I thought his even scorecard gave Loma a little too much credit. I mean I guess the argument could be made for a draw, but from what I watched, I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
What were your thoughts on the scorecards, Breadman? On target or off base?
Greg K.
Bread’s Response: I thought the official scorecards were off but Lopez did win. While watching the fight I thought Lopez won 5 of the first 6 rounds. I thought Loma won the 2nd. I was surprised that none of the judges gave Loma the 2nd, he landed 2 nice left hands in that round. In the 7th I thought Loma stepped on it and started to win rounds. I can’t remember exactly which one but Lopez stole one of the rounds in between the 7th-11th. That secured him a draw. Lopez then won the 12th which secured him a win. There is a case for a Loma draw but there is a stronger case for Lopez 7-5. There is a moderate case for Lopez 8-4 but nothing more than that.
I didn’t need a pen a pad for this fight. Lopez won it or at worst deserved a draw. After hearing reviews and opinions it contaminates your train of thought and objectivity. My INITIAL opinion was that Loma let Lopez win his rounds easier than Lopez let Loma win his. Therefore when some assume Loma swept the 2nd half, he didn’t. Lopez was finishing strong in a few of those rounds and 1 or 2 were swing rounds.
Boxing is not who’s winning, it’s who’s giving the judges the best impression that they are winning. It’s like a courtroom. Who is putting on the best presentation? Guilt or innocence is secondary to the presentation. Loma allowed Lopez to look as if he was controlling the action. He gave him too much respect and his presentation got better as the fight went on but it wasn’t enough.
Let me go on the record to say this as I have already been saying. Loma has slipped some. Not much but it shows at 135lbs. Honestly he may have left a piece of himself in the ring vs Linares. He hasn’t been lights out since that fight and the injury. You also have to realize that Linares put on his career best performance in that loss and Loma had to go to a dark place in order to stop him. Loma keeps getting injured and the fights keep getting harder. It’s no coincidence.
Also things will now really get hard for Loma now and here is why. He improved since the Salido fight so trying to pressure him didn’t really work as he ascended. But now as the P4P guy this was no FLUKE. There is a formula to beating him. He’s a pure boxer with great footwork but he likes to dictate and peck forward. He doesn’t have what you call great RANGE. He likes to get up on you. So now these elite coaches and elite fighters will do their best to not let him get around their lead shoulder and come forward. They will also go to his body. He has short arms and a long torso which doesn’t let you cover your entire torso for protection. And they won’t overly engage. They will more or less try to hold their ground but be forceful. And let Loma know they won’t allow him to run up on them.
Loma will have to reinvent some of his game. Everyone is not Teofimo Lopez. Everyone won’t have his fire power and overall talent. But there is a good blueprint to follow. Fighting like Salido is more unnatural to most fighters these days because he’s a swarmer and most don’t train for that. But Teofimo is a boxer puncher. That style can be duplicated. Even if they are not as good as Lopez, Loma will have issues. Watch and see.
I believe he’s a HOF but he’s not an ATG yet. If he wants to be he’s going to have to really step it up because this last stretch won’t be easy. Just look at what happens at the top level once the field sees you have trouble or lose. You have to be special to overcome it.
With Kovalev people saw he couldn’t take body shots. They saw he didn’t like real pressure. They saw he couldn’t infight. So that’s what his opponents tried to do.
GGG they saw that you don’t have to give ground. As good as a puncher as he is they see that it’s easier to fight him than it is to box him. So now that’s what they do.
Thurman they saw that body shots really bother him and his moving feet can be used against him because sometimes he over moves and burns unnecessary energy.
I can go on and on. And now that Lopez has beaten Loma. Top fighters with talent will use a jab or threat of a jab to break his rhythm. They will not run away from him. But instead be aggressive but not over committing aggression. They will go to his body. And when he steps on it they will either push him off when he gets close or turn with him to take the angle away. Every trainer of an elite fighter from 130 to 135 saw that fight. Loma will have to earn his stripes because things just got really hard.
Great job Teofimo Lopez Sr. and Joey Gamache. I like to see trainers do well. I can see they knew Loma and drilled Lopez. Everything that Loma did, Teofimo was ready for. That’s good training.
More impressive at 23, Canelo or Lopez? The poise from both these dudes at that age is remarkable. But wouldn’t we all get to see this skill from many more fighters if more competitive fights were made? Can we ever get back to that point or is the long game build for ppv potential here to stay.
PS. I don’t know tou personally but your messages through boxing provide mentorship to all us readers whether through boxing and even life. Thanks.
Bread’s Response: Canelo had more fights and was a more established champion. But Lopez has a better win and he won a his titles vs champions not a vacant one. Right now I will say it’s a PUSH but I want to point something out.
Canelo had a harder fight vs Floyd as far as a style match up than Teofimo had vs Loma. Here is why. Canelo fought at a catchweight. Canelo is also not taller or longer than Floyd. So while Floyd was the older, smaller man like Loma, Floyd will age better because Floyd can lay back and box and be sharp. As you get older the thing that becomes harder to do is exerting maximum energy. That’s why you see sprinters peak out in their 20s. So while Loma may be as skilled as guys like Whitaker and Floyd, his style does not age well. No pressure fighter’s style has ever aged well. They all slip in their late 20s or early 30s. What ages well in boxing is fighters who can fight at range. Or fighters who have extreme brute force. Loma has either.
Look at Roberto Duran. He was not tall or long above 135lbs. And besides the 1st Leonard win, his 2 biggest wins of the 80s were against Iran Barkley and Davey Moore. And the reason that was is because both stood in front of him and brawled. They didn’t have the skill to keep him at range. Duran couldn’t close the distance on Leonard in the rematch. He couldn’t close the distance on Benitez. He couldn’t close the distance on Hagler when Hagler started using his jab.
It’s very hard to give up what Loma gave up because it takes so much energy to win against a kid like Lopez. For as good as they think Loma is, they have to match him a certain way from here on out. He can’t just fight ANYBODY, ANYMORE.
I am not at all convinced that Lopez's two valuable wins should automatically give him a place in such a respectable group, although he probably has a bright future
I would like to add that I really appreciate the bigger Lopez's victory against such an experienced fighter.
Kind regards
Marek from Krakow
Bread’s Response: I think Lopez deserves to be in the top 10 P4P. That was a huge win in a unification. But I don’t think he deserves Loma’s spot. I had Loma #2. Here is my top 10.
1. Crawford 2. Canelo 3. Inoue 4.Spence 5. Lopez. 6. Fury 7. Lomachenko 8. Estrada 9. Usyk 10. Taylor
Honorable Mentions go to Beterbiev, Tanaka and Charlo Bros.
Dear Breadman,
It’s really disappointing to hear that Loma went into the fight injured. Why do fighters do that? What are some of the underlying factors that would make a fighter go into the ring compromised? Is it an inflated self-belief? Is it underrating your opponent? Is it frustration due to all the commitments made in training and the promotion? Is it about money? Do fighters have to give up a portion of their purse if there’s a postponement? In team sports, I can see an athlete playing hurt because teammates can pick you up. It doesn’t have to be all about you. You can gameplan and adjust accordingly. But in the fight game, it is all about you. You’re the one taking the shots. You’re the one risking your life. Even Loma’s dad could not persuade him to postpone the fight. That says a lot because they have a very special relationship. Please shed some light on this oddity in the sweet science. Loma is not the first and he certainly will not be the last.
Thanks,
Gilbert
Bread’s Response: It’s very hard for a fighter to pull out of a huge fight. They don’t want to waste camp expenses and their peak conditioning. Often times fighters fight with ailments. I have trained fighters and won with cuts, bruised knuckles, click knees, tennis elbow, the flu and strained shoulders. It’s boxing nothing is ever perfect.
Fighters think once they make weight they can rehydrate, load up on vitamins and feel better. Often times they will get permission from the commission to take cortisone shot or something like it to do away with the pain. Postponing cost money. Fighters don’t want to let anyone down. It’s a tough call because sometimes you win with the injuries and sometimes you don’t.
If a fighter can perform in training often times he will go on with the fight because he feels like he can rise to the occasion on fight night because of adrenaline etc. It’s a very tricky call. When they win, they feel like Super Man. When they lose they 2nd guess fighting with the injury. Loma has won plenty of fights with injuries so he was used to fighting and winning while compromised. The bigger question is why is he getting injured so often.
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